Monday, February 09, 2009

 
More, briefly, on this whole BDSM argument:

(you know, I used to take the time to explain myself, to link to my source material, to really fully explore all my ideas. no more. no time. wish I did. these days I'm lucky if I get five minutes to blog at all.)

here it is, for me: any thing (or thought or action) that challenges someone's idea of what a member of Class Woman should or ought to do or be - that thing (or thought or action) is a feminist thing (or thought or action).*

it may not be a virtuous thing, or a pure thought, or a particularly bold or righteous action, but why should feminism have a skewed view of womankind?


*I know - a grammar monstrosity. but there it is. maybe later I'll come back and pretty it up some so I don't appear so stone stupid. (but you know what they say about trying to polish a turd...)

Comments:
Yes! Even feminism's notions of womanhood need to be challenged and examined! And that can only be to the benefit of feminism, unfortunately, rather than engaging in a civilised conversation some people prefer to slag off at others by telling them they're incapable of being a feminist being their views on the matter are the only one's that count.
 
sorry that should read: because their view's on the matter are the only one's that count...
 
Hey, can't say I can speak from a feminist perspective (obviously), but I speak about being judged.

I'm recently divorced and rekindled an old flame from 20 years ago in college (antiprincess can attest). The rekindling was post divorce. My family (mostly old-school Italian) is weirded out and horrified - though they would like Michelle (aka Meesh - said flame) a lot. Other than my mom, they want little part of me at this point.

People at work look at me like I have a third eye - you're dating someone who lives where...? And you're what...? And she has a 6 year old, and...? And she does what?

Too bleeping bad! Leave me alone!

I speak as someone still a bit right of center politically, socially and such.. but don't tell me how to run my life or who to sleep with or what to do or how to do it! Or who to do it with... Oh waitaminit, grammar police... with whom to do it. Sorry.

If I don't irreparably hurt anyone or break a law, and no one does the same in return to me, sorry folks, doesn't matter - go away!
Leave me and us alone!

Lissy - your points are well taken. I think I agree with your standpoint. I can disagree with what someone else does, and they can disagree with what I do, and we can tell each other so. But I think you'll agree, it's not right to think less of someone or preach to someone about it if you don't agree. Just say you don't agree and then either have a reasonably decent conversation about it, or just clam it. But don't judge someone's personality because you disagree with them.

Just my $0.02 from afar.
 
Damn straight its not right to judge someone's personality because you disagree with them about something or other!

It's juvenile at best... I can't quite get out my feelings of frustration at the tone of the 'conversation' anti-princess writes about. Because it seems to me that basically anyone that doesn't agree is shut down as either being 'unable to exercise agency because they're brainwashed' and if that's not it then you're just crazy, sick, deranged or a monster.

There is an inability on behalf of some of the participants to actually acknowledge others as being human and having a different experience of that common humanity. I might go think about this some more and blog rather than take up anti-princess's space.
 
I might go think about this some more and blog rather than take up anti-princess's space.

feel free! it's been ages since anyone's wanted to take up my space.
 
here it is, for me: any thing (or thought or action) that challenges someone's idea of what a member of Class Woman should or ought to do or be - that thing (or thought or action) is a feminist thing (or thought or action).*

WORD.
 
I personally think a lot of these folks heads are so far up their own bottoms that...

eh, hows the wee patriarch???
 
aw, ren, he's completely adorable. in a patriarchal way.

hey, did you see this comment on Rage:



I’d rather be treated like trash than a machine…

…so long as it’s consensual, you know. That’s my choice. Is that choice “feminist”? I wouldn’t say so. But I wouldn’t say it’s incompatible with feminism, with me being a feminist.

Disagree? Go ahead. But I wonder at the end of the day, what are you advocating here, ND, or what are you proposing?

You keep saying variations on the “No one is talking about legislating anything” line. So what are you talking about? You’re making no bones about it being a moral judgment. Maybe in your mind this moral judgment is targeted with laser-like precision on the Patriarchy and on the men who “get off on torture”. Maybe not. But in reality, you’re wielding a flamethrower loaded up with slutshameum and you’re torching a pretty wide swath.

I have needs. Sexual needs. To read your posting—and similar sentiments that have been expressed by some other feminists—it seems like my choices are pretty basic:

Whore or Madonna.

I can live out my life like a nun, praying that some day there will be a generation born free of Patriarchy in part because my sacrifice helped stop the creation of “torture porn”… or I can be a slut, crossing the line of what has been morally judged to be proper for a woman.

I’m a Whore, because I’m not cut out to be a martyr. I’m working on accepting myself more so I don’t feel that way, but the shame is still there. I wonder how you feel about that. Do you consider it progress for me, for women, for anybody, if I feel less ashamed? Or do you think this shame is a good thing that I should be feeling, for doing something morally wrong?

Here’s an extension of that question for you, a serious yet utterly hypothetical situation:

If the Great Cosmic Judge of Such Things appeared before you and declared that you had been selected at random to decide whether all women who enjoy male-domination BDSM would feel deeply ashamed of their “kink” or be utterly okay with it, what would your decision be?


I think it's a great comment. but it has so far gone unanswered.
 
it is a good comment, we'll see if it gets answered.

and yay for cuteness!
 
another comment that I want to preserve for posterity, this time my own:

ND says:
Because we can’t keep capitulating to patriarchy and expect it to end.

I says:
so, if I read you correctly, every time I say "spank me, baby!" to my partner, I'm recapitulating patriarchy.

no matter what I do with the rest of my day. no matter what my partner does with the rest of hir day. no matter if I never take a picture of it, or talk about it with anyone. even if I keep it a secret and take it to my grave.

good thing you don't care what I do with my sexual free time...

if a hand smacks my naked butt in the middle of the forest and nobody is around to hear it, is patriarchy recapitulated?
 
"if a hand smacks my naked butt in the middle of the forest and nobody is around to hear it, is patriarchy recapitulated?"

Only on Thursdays.
 
if a hand smacks my naked butt in the middle of the forest and nobody is around to hear it, is patriarchy recapitulated?

I put that up at my place as the FTW quote of the day. I read that and started laughing hard enough to make Mr. E look at me like I had lost my mind.
 
I R smart.

it's great to be back, folks!
 
Any thing (or thought or action) that challenges someone's idea of what a member of Class Woman should or ought to do or be - that thing (or thought or action) is a feminist thing (or thought or action)

Hear hear!
 
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