Wednesday, July 25, 2007
oh wow.
Words of wisdom from Heart:
Male-to-female transsexuality/transgender is really about men’s rights. It has nothing to do with feminism. As such, as feminists, just as we oppose men’s rights, in general, we oppose this manifestation of men’s rights as well.
"we oppose men's rights in general." well, okay. now it's out in the open. but if that's really what you think, I think Amnesty International would like to have a little chat...
See, this is embarrassing.
Heart carelessly? foolishly? truthfully? freudian-slippedly? claims that feminists oppose men's rights. I am hoping, because I am an optimistic person, that she really meant The Men's Rights Movement, ideological home of such concepts as repealing women's suffrage, a "return to traditional families" (which never existed in the first place), and other such crap.
Otherwise, I'm forced to conclude that Heart thinks that feminists oppose things like life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, representative democracy, speedy trial, unreasonable search-n-seizure, no cruel and unusual punishment, all that sort of stuff, for people with XY chromosomes.
Heart, tell me I misread you. Tell me I misunderstood you. Tell me it was a typo and you forgot to capitalize. Tell me SOMETHING.
Otherwise I'll have to think you're a bigger embarrassment to feminism than I originally thought.
Words of wisdom from Heart:
Male-to-female transsexuality/transgender is really about men’s rights. It has nothing to do with feminism. As such, as feminists, just as we oppose men’s rights, in general, we oppose this manifestation of men’s rights as well.
"we oppose men's rights in general." well, okay. now it's out in the open. but if that's really what you think, I think Amnesty International would like to have a little chat...
See, this is embarrassing.
Heart carelessly? foolishly? truthfully? freudian-slippedly? claims that feminists oppose men's rights. I am hoping, because I am an optimistic person, that she really meant The Men's Rights Movement, ideological home of such concepts as repealing women's suffrage, a "return to traditional families" (which never existed in the first place), and other such crap.
Otherwise, I'm forced to conclude that Heart thinks that feminists oppose things like life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, representative democracy, speedy trial, unreasonable search-n-seizure, no cruel and unusual punishment, all that sort of stuff, for people with XY chromosomes.
Heart, tell me I misread you. Tell me I misunderstood you. Tell me it was a typo and you forgot to capitalize. Tell me SOMETHING.
Otherwise I'll have to think you're a bigger embarrassment to feminism than I originally thought.
# posted by antiprincess @ 10:15 AM 
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which is all not to ignore the whole "Male-to-female transsexuality/transgender is really about men’s rights" nonsense.
I am not an expert in transgender issues, not by a long shot. but I apparently need remedial work because I don't see how that makes sense even a little bit.
I am not an expert in transgender issues, not by a long shot. but I apparently need remedial work because I don't see how that makes sense even a little bit.
well, it's essentialist cultural feminism.
women are better, and have a metaphysical something special about them.
moon sisters unite!
nevermind what that special something is, because it most closely resembles: "agreeing with heart."
women are better, and have a metaphysical something special about them.
moon sisters unite!
nevermind what that special something is, because it most closely resembles: "agreeing with heart."
Methinks it was a typo.
By the way, AP, our real-life number of degrees of separation shortened dramatically over the weekend ;)
By the way, AP, our real-life number of degrees of separation shortened dramatically over the weekend ;)
# posted by 
: 11:42 AM
: 11:42 AM
I've been watching Heart for years; she is vile beyond belief. She never left the RR, she just changed her script.
I often wonder if she isn't actually still with them, a mole embedded to make feminism look outrageous and hateful.
She and her pals have been actively hurting women for years.
But hey, see the Hullabaloo thread where she, lucky, et al. are bragging about a public attack they engineered on one of the speakers who did not meet with their approval. Then one of the event's organizer's shows up with a WTF. Hilarious back-peddling ensues...
I enjoy your writing--thanks for the blog.
I often wonder if she isn't actually still with them, a mole embedded to make feminism look outrageous and hateful.
She and her pals have been actively hurting women for years.
But hey, see the Hullabaloo thread where she, lucky, et al. are bragging about a public attack they engineered on one of the speakers who did not meet with their approval. Then one of the event's organizer's shows up with a WTF. Hilarious back-peddling ensues...
I enjoy your writing--thanks for the blog.
# posted by : 11:43 AM
: 11:43 AM
mandos - email me @ laurelresources AT yahoo DOT com.
anon - glad you dig it! stick around, pick a name, make yourself comfy!
anon - glad you dig it! stick around, pick a name, make yourself comfy!
I don't believe in Freudian slips, not where that clown is concerned.
Once again, I say let's take up a nationwide collection, buy Montana and put a big fence around it. We'll call it WomynsSpace and let it be all their own.
Once again, I say let's take up a nationwide collection, buy Montana and put a big fence around it. We'll call it WomynsSpace and let it be all their own.
Wow, check out the comments. Rain apparently feels that "trans-politics, and trans-activism is a full-on patriarchal one, and a woman-hating one, and its ultimate goal is the continuing subordination of women. Full stop. End of story."
Well, I guess trying to get gender identity and gender expression covered by anti-discrimination laws, trying to be able to room with people we feel comfortable with in college, making it easier to change our names and gender/sex markers on legal documents, trying to help kids who are kicked out of their homes by their parents, etc. are all woman-hating and anti-feminist.
"The trans-activist political patriarchal faction are not honest, they lie and deceive, obfuscate and confuse, and actively seek to ultimately destroy feminism from within."
Would you like some tinfoil? Or some help making sure your house isn't bugged?
Because everything we trannies do is all about hatin on t3h wimminz and t3h twuu femininstz.
Well, I guess trying to get gender identity and gender expression covered by anti-discrimination laws, trying to be able to room with people we feel comfortable with in college, making it easier to change our names and gender/sex markers on legal documents, trying to help kids who are kicked out of their homes by their parents, etc. are all woman-hating and anti-feminist.
"The trans-activist political patriarchal faction are not honest, they lie and deceive, obfuscate and confuse, and actively seek to ultimately destroy feminism from within."
Would you like some tinfoil? Or some help making sure your house isn't bugged?
Because everything we trannies do is all about hatin on t3h wimminz and t3h twuu femininstz.
# posted by : 4:28 PM
: 4:28 PM
Okay...here's what I don't understand...maybe i am simple and all, but, riddle me this:
Half the time, Heart and crew are all up in arms about gender defined this, the sex class, blah blah blah...
Half the time it is all about the mystical yoni power that makes women wonderful and mystical and powerful, blah blah blah...
And while the yoni (A FUCKING ORGAN) is biological, a difference between the SEXES, is not giving it all this mystical significance....gender based and gender bias?
????
Half the time, Heart and crew are all up in arms about gender defined this, the sex class, blah blah blah...
Half the time it is all about the mystical yoni power that makes women wonderful and mystical and powerful, blah blah blah...
And while the yoni (A FUCKING ORGAN) is biological, a difference between the SEXES, is not giving it all this mystical significance....gender based and gender bias?
????
she's not a frigging "cultural" anything. they're talking about wombs and childbearing and blood and cells, for fuckssake. it's just plain ol' Slytherin essentialism; the mystical hooha is your -birthright.- provided you have the right bits, of course.
and: um, -more- embarrassing? dude, how much more embarrassing could she possible be?
and: um, -more- embarrassing? dude, how much more embarrassing could she possible be?
and yes, I recently had dinner with mandos, who graciously overlooked my abandoning him in the wrong subway station (sorry, dude) and nearly setting him on fire in the restaurant.
omg, Rain(singer). hokay, so she's NOT the ev0l (well, deeply fucked up, i know from experience, alas) Rainsong/Renee/Lynn/Onedown/Rumplestilskin (no, i made that last one up), the transphobic radical feminist transsexual with a love/hate-on for Heart; that one was clearly an Evil Imposter to this one, the REAL transphobic radical feminist Rainsinger who just now turned up at Heart's for the first time; hell, Heart decided that must be the case, so it -must- be true.
:facepalm:
:facepalm:
antiprincess - You don't need remedial work, you need crack. Then it would ALL make sense, at least until the crack wore off.
Probably not good for the sprog, though, so you may have to wait a few months to be enlightened.
Rootie - How are we planning to get them into their new home? Know anyone with any herding skills?
I still say we throw the MRAs in there with them, pass out popcorn, and sit back to watch.
Probably not good for the sprog, though, so you may have to wait a few months to be enlightened.
Rootie - How are we planning to get them into their new home? Know anyone with any herding skills?
I still say we throw the MRAs in there with them, pass out popcorn, and sit back to watch.
Belledame, I doubt Lucius and Bellatrix would be okay with you comparing their beliefs to Heart's.
I think both they, and all other purebloods and pureblood-essentialists would be very, very offended by your comparison. It is a smear campaign, it is disingenuous, and it is transparently and hatefully anti-purist.
Shame on you.
/sarcastic geekery
I made myself a Slytherin!Harry costume, a wand, and quills; I am a geek.
^.^
I think both they, and all other purebloods and pureblood-essentialists would be very, very offended by your comparison. It is a smear campaign, it is disingenuous, and it is transparently and hatefully anti-purist.
Shame on you.
/sarcastic geekery
I made myself a Slytherin!Harry costume, a wand, and quills; I am a geek.
^.^
# posted by : 11:01 PM
: 11:01 PM
and yes, I recently had dinner with mandos, who graciously overlooked my abandoning him in the wrong subway station (sorry, dude) and nearly setting him on fire in the restaurant.
cool! what did you have for dinner?
cool! what did you have for dinner?
kactus:
http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2007/06/27/feminist-hullaballoo-historic-reunion-of-the-wild-sisters-part-i/#comments
http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2007/06/27/feminist-hullaballoo-historic-reunion-of-the-wild-sisters-part-i/#comments
# posted by : 4:43 AM
: 4:43 AM
We went to a Thai place in Manhattan. We had coconut curries, mine very spicy, and we had noodle dishes. I had very spicy drunken noodles, and BD222 had green noodles. It was delicious, but it didn't sit well afterwards.
BD222: don't worry about leaving me stranded, as I needed to "walk it off' a bit more. I wandered around Times Square for a little bit afterwards.
BD222: don't worry about leaving me stranded, as I needed to "walk it off' a bit more. I wandered around Times Square for a little bit afterwards.
# posted by : 7:03 AM
: 7:03 AM
Re: fire, it was all I could do to restrain my own incendiary tendencies!
Now I will somehow have to find a hardcore radfem to take to dinner to balance out my blogwarz dinner balance sheet. Any volunteers?
Now I will somehow have to find a hardcore radfem to take to dinner to balance out my blogwarz dinner balance sheet. Any volunteers?
# posted by : 7:12 AM
: 7:12 AM
But hey, see the Hullabaloo thread where she, lucky, et al. are bragging about a public attack they engineered on one of the speakers who did not meet with their approval. Then one of the event's organizer's shows up with a WTF. Hilarious back-peddling ensues...
Did I miss this? Do you have a link?
I registered my disagreement with the thread under discussion, but I don't think I made too much sense. {sigh}
I need to learn a lot more before I decide to argue about trans issues from a feminist perspective.
Did I miss this? Do you have a link?
I registered my disagreement with the thread under discussion, but I don't think I made too much sense. {sigh}
I need to learn a lot more before I decide to argue about trans issues from a feminist perspective.
But seriously, I *do* actually think that Heart means "men's rights activism." aka special rights for men, usually.
# posted by : 8:26 AM
: 8:26 AM
Now I will somehow have to find a hardcore radfem to take to dinner to balance out my blogwarz dinner balance sheet. Any volunteers?
teehee...watch out for poisoned lentil loaf, speaking of...
teehee...watch out for poisoned lentil loaf, speaking of...
But seriously, I *do* actually think that Heart means "men's rights activism." aka special rights for men, usually.
she should be more careful. just any moron could pick up that quote and run with it.
I did - what's stopping some capital-M "Men's Rights" guy from doing the same?
she should be more careful. just any moron could pick up that quote and run with it.
I did - what's stopping some capital-M "Men's Rights" guy from doing the same?
well, yeah, most feminists are opposed to the people calling themselves MRA's; on the other hand, that now suggests that transfolk are -more sympatico- with the MRA agenda--and vice versa--than with feminism.
which,
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
yes indeedy: tell it to all the MRA's who call transfolk "transformers," think "mangina" is a witty as all hell insult...why, YES, homophobic femmephobic misogynistic me-Tarzan ev-psych Free Republic types are -all over- postmodernist queer theory and trans rights. Yes!
Meanwhile, back on Earth...
which,
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
yes indeedy: tell it to all the MRA's who call transfolk "transformers," think "mangina" is a witty as all hell insult...why, YES, homophobic femmephobic misogynistic me-Tarzan ev-psych Free Republic types are -all over- postmodernist queer theory and trans rights. Yes!
Meanwhile, back on Earth...
i should say: are opposed to them, the MRA's, if they even know who the hell they are.
but yeah: it's not a zero-sum game; there's a difference between saying "these people are reactionary macho shitheads trying to co-opt the language of victimhood to get out of paying alimony or legitimate abuse/rape charges or whatever and i want nothing to do with them"
and saying, as it sure sounds like that crew has been saying, from everything i've read there:
"men have ALL THE POWER, women have none, it's that stark; and certainly there's nothing in this System that works specifically to the detriment of men, and feminists are opposed to any such examination or admission, on account of it takes away from womens' suffering, because you know there's not enough of THAT to go around."
seriously, if "feminists" like this didn't exist the MRA's would have to invent them.
and vice versa, I suppose.
but yeah: it's not a zero-sum game; there's a difference between saying "these people are reactionary macho shitheads trying to co-opt the language of victimhood to get out of paying alimony or legitimate abuse/rape charges or whatever and i want nothing to do with them"
and saying, as it sure sounds like that crew has been saying, from everything i've read there:
"men have ALL THE POWER, women have none, it's that stark; and certainly there's nothing in this System that works specifically to the detriment of men, and feminists are opposed to any such examination or admission, on account of it takes away from womens' suffering, because you know there's not enough of THAT to go around."
seriously, if "feminists" like this didn't exist the MRA's would have to invent them.
and vice versa, I suppose.
Rootie - As a dedicated foodie who can cook, do you have any idea how much is appalls me that I occasionally meet lefty people who really do eat lentil loaf? OK, I get that they're vegan, but there are plenty of ways to eat vegan or vegetarian without having to subsist on mush.
And it's a stereotype because there's more than a little truth to it.
And it's a stereotype because there's more than a little truth to it.
BTW, I read the entire thread and when you look at her comment in context it really doesn't seem like she means MRAs specifically. I know she's not a very good writer (there's some classic British understatement for you), but still, if she really had meant MRAs I think she'd have done a better job of communicating that.
Cassandra- I'm a dedicated foodie, too. I also love a really good vegetarian recipe, because I think it takes more skill to handle vegetables that it does with meat (except maybe fresh tuna). Lentils are (according to the House Taster) "An Abomination Before The Lord". There is nothing redeeming about something that always looks like babyshit.
There is once you've made it into haleem. But you have to have a taste for incinerating your mouth to like haleem. (It's a thick Indian meat-lentil stew/chili.)
# posted by : 4:58 PM
: 4:58 PM
Rootie - Agreed that vegetables are more delicate and harder to handle than meats in general (and about the tuna exception, which is why I usually end up getting someone with special skills to slice it for me and eating it raw - cooking it seems like a waste).
There are ways to make lentils palatable, though. Have you ever had Shorbit Addas? Spicy Arabic red lentil soup, and awesome.
Which in no way excuses the existance of lentil loaf. I can't understand how anyone can force themselves to eat that stuff. There has to be some kind of hair-shirt element to the whole thing.
There are ways to make lentils palatable, though. Have you ever had Shorbit Addas? Spicy Arabic red lentil soup, and awesome.
Which in no way excuses the existance of lentil loaf. I can't understand how anyone can force themselves to eat that stuff. There has to be some kind of hair-shirt element to the whole thing.
My mother has always been enamored of lentils, especially loaf, which she took as a personal challenege to get it to stay together without egg.Thus, I've been raised on the nasty stuff. I've never met a lentil I liked, but then I've never had any other than what mom made. I'd be willing to try spicy middle eastern versions if someone supplemented it with baba ghanouj, just in case.
As for the hair shirt theory- it could be the same bundle of brain cells that makes Republican men eat 3 pound steaks cooked rare. We could put them all in the same room and watch a nuclear explosion, then all would be right in the world.
As for the hair shirt theory- it could be the same bundle of brain cells that makes Republican men eat 3 pound steaks cooked rare. We could put them all in the same room and watch a nuclear explosion, then all would be right in the world.
MFK Fisher has a great piece called "Pity the Blind in Palate," wherein she postulates that some people really don't care or notice what they eat. Dulling of the senses, you know, whether inborn or (more likely, she seems to say) drilled in.
but i mean, yeah: why lentil loaf, when you could have moros y cristianos, or red beans and rice, or butter beans? 'course, those go better with pork fat and/or some other fat and tons of garlic, but still.
Two words:
Lentil salad.
Boil 'em up gently, in not-too-much water-- with a bay leaf and some garlic and onion. Mix with olive oil, red wine vinegar, salt and (fresh-ground, if possible) pepper.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
(Cribbed from Planet of the Feminist Supervixens. The NYT Cookbook also has a respectable version, with more veggies in it.)
This anti-lentil crusade helps no one. Down with culinary essentialism.
Lentil salad.
Boil 'em up gently, in not-too-much water-- with a bay leaf and some garlic and onion. Mix with olive oil, red wine vinegar, salt and (fresh-ground, if possible) pepper.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
(Cribbed from Planet of the Feminist Supervixens. The NYT Cookbook also has a respectable version, with more veggies in it.)
This anti-lentil crusade helps no one. Down with culinary essentialism.
It's worth trying anything Middle Eastern and lentil-based if you get the chance. I'd offer to make you something if you weren't thousands of miles away.
"As for the hair shirt theory- it could be the same bundle of brain cells that makes Republican men eat 3 pound steaks cooked rare. We could put them all in the same room and watch a nuclear explosion, then all would be right in the world. "
But then there would be little bits of raw steak and lentil loaf all over the place, and that would just be icky.
And yeah to Belle's point. There are plenty of ways to do vegan and simple without resorting to The Loaf of Doom.
"As for the hair shirt theory- it could be the same bundle of brain cells that makes Republican men eat 3 pound steaks cooked rare. We could put them all in the same room and watch a nuclear explosion, then all would be right in the world. "
But then there would be little bits of raw steak and lentil loaf all over the place, and that would just be icky.
And yeah to Belle's point. There are plenty of ways to do vegan and simple without resorting to The Loaf of Doom.
This statement from the comments at You Probably Know Where greatly intrigues me, far more than the men's rights thing. It is, however, related:
The two boards serve different purposes. There’s a school of hard knocks that a lot of women will graduate from. And you know what? Even if *most* don’t graduate, I foresee a day that *most* of the women of radfem/separatist persuasion will have *most* if not all of what we want.
Not the whole planet. But a significant enough chunk of it that it will significantly if not mortally wound the patriarchy.
This kind of presupposes that this person wants the "whole planet" in the ideal case. What does it mean for (presumably radical lesbian) separatists to have the "whole planet"?
The two boards serve different purposes. There’s a school of hard knocks that a lot of women will graduate from. And you know what? Even if *most* don’t graduate, I foresee a day that *most* of the women of radfem/separatist persuasion will have *most* if not all of what we want.
Not the whole planet. But a significant enough chunk of it that it will significantly if not mortally wound the patriarchy.
This kind of presupposes that this person wants the "whole planet" in the ideal case. What does it mean for (presumably radical lesbian) separatists to have the "whole planet"?
# posted by : 6:27 AM
: 6:27 AM
hey, hi ms. xeno! welcome!
that lentil salad recipe sounds delicious.
I am always looking for tasty things to eat these days. I am going to try that.
viva lentils! just not in loaf form. keep the lentils whole!
that lentil salad recipe sounds delicious.
I am always looking for tasty things to eat these days. I am going to try that.
viva lentils! just not in loaf form. keep the lentils whole!
never mind that; what exactly is "most or all of what we want?"
it's intriguing that she makes such assertions precisely when they're approaching the nadir of their Popular Peoples' Front of Judea-ism.
it's intriguing that she makes such assertions precisely when they're approaching the nadir of their Popular Peoples' Front of Judea-ism.
I think fundamentalists are prone to such hyperbole that everyone else justs quits listening, then it winds up a big case of them all preaching to the choir.
Whether its culinary, feminist, or religious...the noise overwhelms our ability to process the information. So I (since I can't really speak for everyone else) tend to tune it out and do my own thing. What you end up with is all these little cultural whirlpools, spinning around each other but not really affecting anyone else. This is how I see the Heart/Twisty circle-jerk.
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Whether its culinary, feminist, or religious...the noise overwhelms our ability to process the information. So I (since I can't really speak for everyone else) tend to tune it out and do my own thing. What you end up with is all these little cultural whirlpools, spinning around each other but not really affecting anyone else. This is how I see the Heart/Twisty circle-jerk.
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