I shame the matriarchy

Those same women you mention disgust me as well.
 

'Goodbye cruel blogosphere'?

That trick never works.

Sure sisterhood can be powerful- the trick is to understand that not all womyn always behave as/are your sisters. You'll find that simple understanding adds greatly to longevity and personal tenaciousness.

If you've got something to say, then fuck those who won't get it, write for yourself or for those who will (get it)- or not.

Writing for what others think of you is rarely a rewarding endevour (even though the typical blog format- comments and all- seems to encourage precisely that kind of interaction).

Blog or blog not, there is no try.

Main thing is to figure out for yourself why you do it (or don't do it) and go from there.
 

sisterhood is mythical. we learned that back in the early 90s.

I just feel like I did not accomplish what I set out to do a year ago, and in fact maybe made things worse.

it's not that I have nothing to say, I just don't seem to be saying it in a way that people get.

and people get grief for saying they dig me. it's like I poison them. that's so unfair.

AND anything I need to say, I've already said, for good or ill.
 

oh, hell, not you too.

i mean, if you're really done, you're done, but--

maybe just because you didn't accomplish what you thought you set out to accomplish, it doesn't mean you didn't accomplish anything, yeah?

it's been an outlet for you, and a point of connection.

just--well, -why- are you shutting down?

because you're tired? okay.

because you have a life offline and you're bored with this online crap? great!

because if you didn't get through to some people there's no point going on at all?

...i mean, far be it from me to say, "examine," but, if it were me...

oh well, you know i'm biased.

do what you need to do, but damn, this sucks.
 

as for people getting grief because they dig you--look, if you're talking about THOSE people, believe me, speaking for myself and probably most of us, we do just fine alienating 'em and worse on our own.

look, email me, okay? because you sound like you're in some serious beat-yourself-up mode, and from where i sit there's no external reason for it.

xox
 

...if otoh you feel like after a fine hearty FUCK YOU (yay!) like that anything else would be anticlimax...

you're still doing the cooking blog with Rootie, yeah?
 

some women are easily offended. They are religious purists who cannot comprehend that not everybody has been brought up in the same little hokey village as they.
 

"sisterhood is mythical." Fuck you, Toots. I shall poke you with your own knitting needle.

"I just feel like I did not accomplish what I set out to do a year ago, and in fact maybe made things worse." Did you decide that you were going to change the global feminist dynamic single-handedly with a blog? You had goals and you worked toward them. You did that honestly and with heart. You may not have achieved the desired effects, but you've represented your voice, spoken in defense of others and ideas you believe to be true and good. Some people can't do even that. You got your feelings stomped on and you continued, because it was more important to you to have those people and ideas fairly represented. You have had a positive impact on readers, both here and in comments on other blogs. Big failure, you.

And as for making things worse: You are not responsible for the behavior of others. End. Of. Story.

"it's not that I have nothing to say, I just don't seem to be saying it in a way that people get." Don't get or don't want to get? I don't think we're talking about disagreement here or poor writing skills. Also, given some of the names mentioned, it's a bit like pissing in the wind.

"and people get grief for saying they dig me. it's like I poison them. that's so unfair." You are not responsible for other people's behavior. Belle said it.

Now listen to me. Do not for one second regard the words wasted by people pushing hate and blinded by their own righteousness as valid estimations of your character. As a writer I would never say (and don't believe) that words are meaningless. I just don't see a whole lot of value or import attached to the rantings and bitchslapping of the cliqueosphere. So someone gets behind a keyboard and says I THINK I SAID I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ. Yeah, and right now, I'm a fucking pastrami on rye. Woooo, look at me go. Does it fucking matter in real life, Heidi? So there's a cunt out in Omaha who doesn't like you and clicky-clickys all about it on their page. In the meantime, in real life, the one that counts, you are actively making this world a better place. I am just incredibly bored by listening to the aforementioned cunt(s) spew venom and ignorance and expecting it to be bowed to, as if their pixelated shittiness does a damned thing to embetter anything but their egos.
 

go, go, Bimbo!
 

AP:

Don't go. I'd really miss you. I check your blog every time I sign on. Hell, you made ME feel welcome, and I would miss you a whole lot.

I think you're aces.
 

ap

do whatever you need

but we love you
 

i will admit that i have only discovered your blog as of recent, but i regard every person who has commented in this thread very highly and it would be a shame to lose someone who clearly has made a difference.
 

AP don't go ! thats an order!

Sb
 

Please keep blogging AntiP.
 

Hey~ I just got here, to yer blog, and based on what I've read so far, I have to say you rock. I found my way here via the carnival, after a serious overindulgence of rad-fem blogs and I feel positively detoxified after reading a few of your posts and the resulting comments.

Thats all, just wanted to de-lurk and appreciate you.
 

I don't contribute here much, but I always find your blog posts (and your comments elsewhere) spot-on and insightful. I think you've got a lot to contribute and I hope you don't hang it up.

Perhaps you're just tired of debating the eternal subject with the usual suspects? I can totally see how one can burn out on that real fast, but its not like you need to engage those people, or even blog about the same subjects if you're tired of them. Or perhaps you just need a temporary break.

The cooking blog thing sounds cool too – I'd follow it. Food is not something I blog about, but its actually a major interest of mine.

Anyway, whether you keep going or hang it up – do what makes you happy, but know you always have an appreciative audience.
 

Wow, I think Bimbo said it all, but I hope you don't go AP. No matter what a bunch of foaming-at-the-mouth zealots say or think you're a fucking good blogger and a really decent person. And both of those things are in massively short supply on the feminist internets.
 

That Bimbo blows my mind.
Right on.

Decide what's best for you, I guess, AP, and hugs either way.
But for shit's sweet sake -- first Bimbo, now maybe you???
ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME?!

I blogged about you, "Be Yourself, Only Just Like Me!"
Please go see.
Loves you.
 

"I just feel like I did not accomplish what I set out to do a year ago, and in fact maybe made things worse.

it's not that I have nothing to say, I just don't seem to be saying it in a way that people get."

AP, please keep blogging! I don't think blogging's something where you can measure discreet accomplishments. Looking at the number of friends you've made above, I don't think you can say you've made anything worse. Controversy's a good thing, in my book! And clearly people get it, or get what they think it is, which both are good things.

As BD says, if this is about other offline goals, then that's cool. But if it's in connection with the recent BS, please don't stop. I love what you have to say.
 

Please don't let the haters force you out. Perhaps a little vacation elsewhere in the blogsphere. Out of the vitriol of the radfems and into blogs about other topics or elsewhere... it can warp your mind, being in there. If you read lots of radfem blogs you get the sense that all men are evil, all women are victims, and there's nothing you can do about it because the second you do you are using resources or power that originate with the mythical 'patriarchy conspiracy' that controls all so you might as well just give up and let the radfems do all your thinking for you. Or something.
 

You have had a positive impact on readers, both here and in comments on other blogs.

Here, here! It's hard to express how much you contribute to communication on so many issues. It may not have been your goal, but it is a worthy endeavor that you should be damn proud to have accomplished.

I shall definitely miss your contributions, but I get it if you need a break.
 

This is probably a good time to de-lurk. AP, I've been enjoying your blog too. You can never please anyone, or even most people, so you might as well just stick to what you think and your true friends (e-friends?) will respect you for it even if they disagree.

That said if blogging is not making a positive impact on your life right now, perhaps there are other ways for you to contribute your opinions?
 

Please don't go; I don't really comment much, but I do read quite a few blogs. Including yours.
Someone else mentioned that they often read your blog to detox from reading the toxic blogs, and I've done that too.
I remember that after the explosion of transphobia that occurred around December/January your blog was one of the blogs that had me giving feminists another chance instead of just writing feminism off as another good idea turned into bigotry. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others who could say the same.

If you do go, then I wish you the best of luck though.
 

I don't understand. You've been blogging to reach Witchy, Heart, ChasingMoksha, Delphyne, Pony, Stormy, Gayle, Bea, Sam, Ginmar this whole time?

That really sucks.

I mean... I know that it's not my place to take this personally, but... I dunno. Those of us read, commented and linked here are just marginal now? Just lucky side effects?

I mean, if you hate blogging and think it's pointless, then you should totally quit. But... this seems sort of insulting to the audience you have built up.

Maybe, I'm just really confused here?
 

veronica - woah, there's some perspective...no, that's not what I meant to say at all.

"what are we, chopped liver?"

eeek. no. totally no.
 

Then what's the deal?

Obviously, you put a lot of stock into thinking that this blog was going to bridge the gap between yourself and "the radfemblogosphere." And, that didn't happen. And, you're upset about it.

But, I guess I am losing the thread right around there. Why do you care so much about that particular group of people thinks of you? Why state that you think that you're a shameful fool because they don't respect you?

I don't understand.

I mean, yes, "what are we? chopped liver?" But, also, "why do you keep throwing yourself at the windmills?"
 

i've been saying. or, well, thinking, mostly. also saying.

yeah. especially that last part--i don't want to add miles to the guilt trip, honest, and i know you're still around, we're still pals, and you gotta do what you gotta do.

but yeah: why specifically try to reach the unreachable when there are so many other people who -do- get your deal, who -do- want to hear it, who -don't- reject you? Why pursue them? Why lay your heart bare -to these particular people?- Of ALL people. Time and again...

you don't have to answer it, but you know: it feels like...it feels like you're trying to resolve something that really can't or shouldn't be resolved in this way. and i'm not actually even talking about the stupid porn wars.

i think, you know, maybe just maybe you came online, in part, to find solidarity and community, particularly with other women.

and--it looks and feels from my admittedly biased perspective like you found it. and continue to find it.

just maybe not from the people you first expected to; but so the fuck what? so WHAT? yeah?

or maybe i'm just speaking for myself here.

make of it what you will.

xox
 

I'll add my "I'll miss your view on the world" sentiments here.

I would like to add a perspective on the "why try to reach the unreachables" thing that some have raised:

The difficult thing about being true to one's beliefs, when those involve freedom of expression, is that if you do express yourself, you inevitably lay yourself open to the comments of everyone who chooses to read and respond to your thoughts. If those thoughts are a big deal for you, then you can't help but be wounded, sometimes sorely, by the bigoted responses that just "don't get" what you're trying to say. It's not a deliberate thing, it just happens.

And after a while, it gets to you.

I never want anyone to stop putting their views out there, and participating in the global debating society that is the internet, but sometimes debates are bruising, and sometimes people need to heal from those bruises.

So I can understand the desire to stop. I just hope all the messages of support, and solidarity from folks old and new (like me) alike, will be persuasive...
 

sure, SDE. it just becomes a question of, okay, i have limited energy and i also want x result: what is the best way of achieving that result?

and if the result seems unattainable, maybe take another look at if there's another way to get what's -behind- that desired result.
 

"you inevitably lay yourself open to the comments of everyone who chooses to read and respond to your thoughts. If those thoughts are a big deal for you, then you can't help but be wounded, sometimes sorely, by the bigoted responses that just "don't get" what you're trying to say. It's not a deliberate thing, it just happens.

And after a while, it gets to you."

exactly. I had periods of time where I really didn't pay much attention to my live Journal either, and that was why.

Nowadays I'm beginning to transform it back into what it was when I first started journaling: a place where I would write about my relationships and my life as a leather person. I feel vaguely disappointed in myself, vaguely like one is not supposed to abandon the political for the personal. But I never really meant my journal to be political anyway, so going back to being me feels good.

AP, you started this blog to be political, so maybe it's different. But you also might want to just turn this into a personal space, where you talk to the friends you've made during this whole political brouhaha, but talk is friends, as personal, rather than as some great statement.
 

Your blog was probably the second in the feminist blogosphere I stumbled across, and I'm still here. I don't comment much, but I come by every day, and I would be heartbroken if I couldn't read your sensible words any more.

I definitely get being burned out. There are some people or some conversations that are just never gonna get the closure you want... and maybe it's time to stop having those conversations, at least for a little while. Maybe time to take a break.

But, well... add my voice to the ones saying please don't go!
 

I really don't think you have an obligation to anyone but yourself; and more, that you cannot fully or as effectively promote or protect your beliefs while you are compromised. "I should never have even thought I could create a corner of the blogosphere that would bring people together in an atmosphere of respectful learning and growth. I was a fool. I should have known better." You didn't say you were pissed off, despondent, and disappointed over what you feel is the failure to create that corner. However fascetiously, you said, "Shame on me." So what I'm seeing in this is that you no longer believe this is possible or that you are capable of providing it. Is that person a good candidate to write I Shame the Matriarchy? If you truly believe this is not feasible for you, not helpful to you or anyone else, and creates shame or something akin to it: STOP. When you have been personally attacked -someone essentially congratulating your mother's death from cancer (?!) -my concern extends into the statements made by Belle and Veronica: why with martyrdom? I understand why most commenters have encouraged you to go on. It's important to any collective front to support those who are a part of it and more important as humans to support, encourage and defend those we care for. But there's a lot of 'me' and 'I' in those comments. I still want to throw myself down the first available set of stairs when I think about my favorite frock shop closing. That does not, however, have anything to do with their pending bankruptcy or its very real ramifications in the lives of the owners. "Paint starry night again, man..." No. No. No. No. Welcome to No, fabulous downtown No, population: you. No.

Maybe someday. I wouldn't detonate the URL. But right now? No.
 

It's Oxygen Mask Theory. In order to help anyone else, you first have to be able to breathe.
 

yeah, she's right.

as others have said: you can always leave this as an archive and reopen or reinvent somewhere else, a personal blog, even an lj, where you can friends-lock posts and so forth if you so wish. make it a space that feels good for you. talk about books or birds or downtown Hartford or any goddam thing but feminism and especially radical feminism.
 

that said, i will invite you to look at the stream of well-wishers and people who are saying they DO appreciate you, they DO hear you, you DO make a difference, and put that up against what you were saying viz "failure." Remind yourself that this time one year ago you did not know any of these people, and were starting from scratch. Then read those comments again. And again.
 

Look, AP. You started trying with me when I wasn't really listening, and I'm glad you did because I feel like I 'met' a good person in you, and a kind and accepting one, and you helped me come out of the weird fug I was in previously and shedding those old attitudes has been nothing but beneficial for me.
Honestly, if it hadn't have been for you and Belledame and others giving me a chance to re-think things when I didn't really deserve a chance from you I would have been bereft and left with nothing feminism-wise. At least to me, you HAVE made a difference. And I'll always be grateful to you for that.
 

Your care for yourself is the most important thing, so if this is what you need it's what you need, but I hope you won't disappear entirely. The blogworld would be a sadder place without AP. 8(
 

I should have thrown this in here earlier, but...

I'm another one who will be sad to see you go. You've been nothing but nice to me and I see no reason for the treatment you've received. If you really want to quit blogging, fine. But please don't quit just because of all the bullshit...Remember they -want- you to quit. If you really want to say "fuck you", the best way to accomplish that is to keep doing exactly what you are doing.
 

Hi AP. Yes, I come from 'the other side' as it were, but I just want you to know that some of us DO value your voice.

I think it's important to value diversity, and listen to each other. Sometimes people can be closed minded and have tunnel vision, especially when they have very strong feelings about what they believe or advocate.

I really try to stay out of all the slanging matches and angry misunderstandings etc. Also I don't think every radfem or progressive feminist is the same, we are all individuals. Up to everyone whether they agree or disagree with each other.

It's hard for me to, for example, understand pro-porn arguments as I am decidedly anti-porn. But I can understand that some porn isn't all the particular violent, objectifying kind (another debate for another time methinks).

But I don't think it's right to dismiss or be angry with women who have chosen particular things in their lives. I don't think it's right to call women 'whores' or think of some women 'beneath' us. Because THAT IS unsisterly and doesn't give props to individual choices and personalities - aka, not everyone is the same. We can't force anyone to believe something and have to agree to differ on certain things.

So please don't go - it's your blog and your choice.
 

Well...*I* like you...lots. I'm thinking your 'passive aggression' is just a wide-open mind willing to consider all possibilities. If that's too much for some people to swallow, too bad.It's their loss.
 

I'm not going to try and guilt you into sticking around if you don't want to. Ultimately, the decision has to be yours, made for the sake of whatever's truly going to make, and keep, you the most sane.

But I'd be very sad to see you take a bow now, and sadder to think it was because you felt defeated by the impossible task or persuading people who have already decided never to be persuaded. It feels a little like giving up martial arts because you can't beat up Jackie Chan; that was never going to happen, and isn't the point of the discipline in the first place.

But most of all, your voice is valuable, moreso than you've ever given it credit for. I'm sorry now I didn't take the opportunity enough to tell you that, for whatever it's worth coming from such as I.

I'm sure this sort of thing won't endear you any further to your critics, not that anything ever will, but: You make me proud to be a feminist. You remind me, time and again, that my liberation is wrapped up with yours. And go or stay, I owe you tremendous gratitude for that.
 

AP,

As others have said, the decision is yours. Personally, I hope you decide not to stop blogging. Your blog is one of my favorites. You always write with a wit, passion, and insight that is unique and much appreciated. Your posts have helped me think about some things in a new light, or flesh out my existing beliefs. And, finally, you've been more gracious and deferential toward people who would disparage you than any of us really could be expected to do - and what did you get for it? More shit. That is just WRONG.

Anyway. My 2 cents. I hope you won't go. I'll miss your writing.
 

AP,

As I think I've said before, you always strike me as going far far out of your way to understand other positions, to not be agressive, to listen and put your points across in a well thought out, constructive and non-threatening manner. You have a clear interest in debating with others in an honest and open way. The people who see you as some devious passive agressive porn peddlar are deluded, blinkered and nasty quite frankly.

I too am at a loss to understand how "women-centred" can encompass such hatred and nastiness. It's hypocritical and depressing.

Do what you gotta do, take care, and thanks for your voice.

Lx
 

Ah, fuck 'em and the horse they rode in on.

When I teach, I talk and talk and sometimes nobody seems to hear any of it. Then, once in a while, years later a student will drop in to say, "I just got it - it all makes sense now."

Give them time; you'll never know if you get some late converts if you leave. (But don't hang on to expectations either!)
 

Hi Antiprincess,

It seems to me that you have loads of friends and supporters and I can’t really understand why you’re putting so much stock in some bloggers who fundamentally disagree with you on various issues. Also, it seems to me that there are plenty of other bloggers, including radical feminist leaning bloggers such as Laura and Fallingstar, out there who are willing to discuss the kind of questions you’re interested in discussing.

You don’t come and argue with me, so I can’t really comment personally on your style of debate (not having the time these days to read many comments threads), but I want to say something about this blog.

I should never have even thought I could create a corner of the blogosphere that would bring people together in an atmosphere of respectful learning and growth. I was a fool. I should have known better.

I’m honestly not trying to be a shit, but to play devil’s advocate for a moment, is this atmosphere of learning and growh conveyed by your blog title? After all, it seems to be a direct repost to one of the most famous and popular radical feminist bloggers and I imagine it would immediately get up the backs of any of her fans who stumbled across this blog. Being as a lot of people associate online radical feminism with IBTP the title might well convey the impression that this is an anti-radical feminist site. Your tagline also seems a bit confrontational. All in all, if I just stumbled across this corner of the blogosphere, I’d assume from the look of it that it’s set up to be a space where certains kinds of feminist thought are going to be questioned and not necessarily respected. Perhaps you should have a blog which is a space where people can take issue with certain kinds of feminist thinking, but possibly best not to re-name it “devious passive agressive porn peddlar,” tempting though that may be ….

Now, while I may disagree with you on some issues, in principle think you have a right to question, argue, confront, disrespect, disagree, get angry, but I don’t really get why you’re surprised or upset by some people’s reaction to your stance and presentation. Maybe I just feel a little bemused by your apparent expectations of the feminist blogosphere. If we were in the pub, I would probably be banging my hand on the table right now and saying “But Antiprincess what do you want?”
 

good question, Winter. and thanks for the food for thought.

in fact, thanks all. I am humbled.
 

I’m honestly not trying to be a shit, but to play devil’s advocate for a moment, is this atmosphere of learning and growh conveyed by your blog title? After all, it seems to be a direct repost to one of the most famous and popular radical feminist bloggers and I imagine it would immediately get up the backs of any of her fans who stumbled across this blog.

In fairness, this was not the original title of AP's blog. She changed it, and the tagline (which is a direct quote from a radfem commenter) after getting shit at IBTP and elsewhere. And she has explained on multiple occasions that the title is not a dig at Twisty, but rather represents her perception that she "disappoints" some radical feminists. (And to those radical feminists, I say, of course, take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.)
 

Now, while I may disagree with you on some issues, in principle think you have a right to question, argue, confront, disrespect, disagree, get angry, but I don’t really get why you’re surprised or upset by some people’s reaction to your stance and presentation.

Winter, you said yourself that you haven't had time to read a lot of comment threads lately. That might be part of why you don't get why AP feels upset or surprised (or hurt). Personally, I can't conceive of how someone who has followed all of this (which admittedly you have not, so I'm speaking in general here) could not see why AP feels the way she does. It's so obvious, it's downright embarrassing.
 

the title is not a dig at Twisty, but rather represents her perception that she "disappoints" some radical feminists.

Yes I have seen her say that, but I'm just not sure that taking such an apparently reactive stance will help her get the kind of discussion she also says she wants to have with people. It's entirely up to Antiprincess to call her blog whatever she likes,(and I quite like the title actually) but it does have an effect on the way she's perceived. That's all I was saying.

That might be part of why you don't get why AP feels upset or surprised (or hurt).

Oh, I can imagine. I've been in the feminist blogosphere long enough to know that feminists say jaw droppingly appalling things to each other, but that's not going to change anytime soon, and we do all make decisions about who and what we engage with. If Antiprincess has to keep reading and commenting on the blogs she mentioned because it's a matter of principle, then that's what she has to do, but this will keep happening.

I do get the upset and the hurt; I don't entirely get surprise, but then I've become fairly cynical and the only thing that could surprise me in the feminist blogosphere now would be a sudden and widespread outbreak of compassion, empathy and listening! I'm not holding my breath for that though.
 

the only thing that could surprise me in the feminist blogosphere now would be a sudden and widespread outbreak of compassion, empathy and listening!

Heh.. *sigh*... well, I've gotta say, I'm with you there.
 

damn, i WISH we were in the pub (you, too, winter). maybe that's the problem here...
 

I think I agree with Winter - and like I said earlier, maybe the problem is that certain people don't really understand that things they say really hurt people.

All the nastiness I've read over the past few months from both sides really is disheartening, but still I feel that if we only keep at it, someone will listen. And even if we only get through to one person, I think it's worth it.

Winter is right - you need to figure out what YOU want. Other people's behaviour is their problem. There are plenty of people out there that will engage with you in debate and be compassionate and understanding.

Belledame - yes perhaps being in a pub and debating would be good. Perhaps part of the problem is that online, things get very heated and you can't see people's reactions or gauge whether they are truly angry or upset.
 

AP - If any of us get grief for digging what you have to say, do you really think we care? That we could possibly care more about what those people think than about your right to say what you want to say?
What those people are attempting is a silencing techinque. in the terms of the schoolyard, they are attempting to send you (and others like you) to Coventry. Why should we let them do that? Why give them that power?
Of course if you want to quit then that's your right. If it's just too damn exhausting and you don't have the energy, then you should do what you need to for yourself.
But never worry about the rest of us being tarred and feathered for associating with you. We're a tough lot, and we don't give a shit what those people think.
 

like I said earlier, maybe the problem is that certain people don't really understand that things they say really hurt people.

One would hope, though, that the person saying, "I felt hurt by that" would make things clear.
 

I had some wild epiphany the other night, thinking on all this.

this same cycle of attempting reconciliation, and being rebuffed, and attempting and rebuffing, and so forth - it mimics a long (and mostly tired) parental drama of mine.

My stepmother and I do this all the time. I say "like me!" she says "sure, if you change!" I say "I'm not changing! like me anyway?" she says "ew, you disgust me." I say "like me!" she says "not unless you change." I say "like me!" she says "ew, you disgust me."

so, you know, thirtyfive years of that just ain't enough, I guess.

but there it is, my own little personal baggage and its impact on the blogosphere.
 

I'm still angry with those folks. I'm not going to apologize for that. but maybe instead of "FUCK YOU" I should have said "EXAMINE YOUR BEHAVIOR!" or something.

Well, in my opinion? A hearty FUCK YOU was more than due. Sure beats that passive-aggressive "examine" bullshit.
 

AP: yep, those are the little epiphanies that make it all...worthwhile? well, a learning experience, hopefully.

so yeah. it hurts. it hurts when people who SHOULD love and respect you for who you are--because who you are is (am? be?) a truly wonderful person--treat you like dirt.

and particularly when it's someone who RAISED you, a parent or whatnot...well, of course you're going to spend your childhood and even unto adulthood, if you don't become conscious of the dynamic, forever seeking out their approval.

Because the alternative--that this person who was supposed to take care of me, who was supposed to be my safe haven, my support, the wind beneath my wings, as it were--is in fact unstable and untrustworthy.

The child--inevitably--blames herself, takes on the responsibility, because at least if it's you and not Mom, that means -there's something you can do about it- to make it better. You may be horribly bad and fucked up, but it beats the alternative of having no safety at all; of living in a world with no protection, no sanity, no control.

If the child is bad, the child can try to be better. If the -adult- is bad, or rather isn't safe, -the child might die.-

Without protection.

Without love.

But the thing is, Heidi? You're not that child anymore. And this situation is not that. These people have no power over you; you don't need them for anything. You HAVE safe places to turn to; you HAVE safe people in your life; you HAVE love.

You don't need these people.

You never did.

You have other people. -Better- people.

And, most of all: you have yourself.

You're a strong, smart, capable, -funny- woman; you are far from helpless; didn't you walk out your abusive marriage with practically nothing but the shirt on your back? Haven't you survived this far? You HAVE. You are a survivor. You have learned many skills for surviving in the world you lived in. You adapted, and got along, and lived.

The question is now:

Which of those old methods that helped you to survive and adapt are still serving you well, and which no longer serve you?

And: are you ready to move from -surviving- to -thriving-?

If not, what would it take to get you there?
 

and you know what? that "fuck you?" Let it stand. It's what you felt. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with getting angry at people who hurt you. Hell, you don't need a justification. We're all adults here. None of us is going to die from having "fuck you!" said to us.

And--this is the hard part--*no matter what you do, some people will never like or approve of you.*

It's just how it is.

Once again, loud and clear:

YOU DON'T NEED THOSE PEOPLE.

There -are- clubs who are more than thrilled to have you as a member; there are people who see you as you are and accept and -love- you for who you are. All of it. Even the nasty bits (we all have them).

Sane adults are that way, you know. It's not the unconditional love and acceptance that is every child's birthright and can never be fully made up for, if not received at the time (and very few of us are so fortunate). But, it's a hell of a lot better than what these assclowns have to offer;

and let's be honest: do you, did you ever even really -like- those people? Never mind who wants to be your friend; who do -you- want to be your friend, -really?- Apart from the horrible behavior and lip service to feminism, what do these people have to offer?
 

some I liked, some I was in awe of, some made me feel like my deodorant quit back in '78 - it was a mixed bag.

even so. I thought a couple things.

1) I thought that there would be no way anyone would find me objectionable, no matter what I said, if I remained calm and polite and on-topic and avoided the ad hom.

and some folks interpreted that as dishonest.

maybe that was projection? I don't know. it's just a thought. but wouldn't be such a wildly outlandish thought. I mean people project all the time.

2)I thought that people were making some rash and inaccurate generalizations about the average kinky-american, and about people who were not strongly antiporn. And I thought that if people knew me, and saw that I was not a monster, then that view might change.

and on that I was just plain wrong.

whatcha gonna do.

and, yeah, it seems that it's a lot of effort to try to change the mind of a handful of people. But if two or three folks bother to type out a comment, or post on their blogs, how many people does that speak for? who knows?
 

Belle is wise, and, as is often the case, says several things I've been trying to articulate, only better.
 

I thought that people were making some rash and inaccurate generalizations about the average kinky-american, and about people who were not strongly antiporn. And I thought that if people knew me, and saw that I was not a monster, then that view might change.

and on that I was just plain wrong.

As to that, I could (after some rummaging) dig up some quotes from people very specifically saying that they've rethought their positions on such things since reading you and RE and others.

again, it's giving more weight to the minority who come back with the familiar "I reject you anyway!" than the others who do not.
 

...but what's really needed is for the people who want to demonize kinky people and voluntary sex workers to be recognized as firmly in the fringe, and wrong. and for that to be true, you need to reach out, again, to everyone -else.- use those diplomatic and reasoning skills where they make a difference.
 

But if two or three folks bother to type out a comment, or post on their blogs, how many people does that speak for? who knows?

You can guess. How many people actually read those blogs? Check technorati, and the variety (not just volume) of their commenters, esp. the ones who agree with them.

but again, there's no reason for you to not talk about your feelings on porn or BDSM. you just don't have to be -talking to these people.- and by now you have enough of an idea of what they have to say; you don't need to read the same arguments over and over again. use a book if you need quotage. but mainly, i'd focus on defining the terms for yourself, not just reacting off their own attempts to frame it. and talk to people who're more or less on your page, not just the opposition. go re-immerse in Dorothy Allison or Amber Hollibaugh or Dacia or Patrick Califia or something.
 

here it is, from September 1, 2006, in its entirety:

My good friend AdequateDer is a songwriter - well, a composer, really. He wrote a song titled "Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg", which, if we're all very very nice to him and say "please", he might someday let us all hear, if we're good.

According to Wikipedia,

The longest place name in the United States (45 letters) is Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg, a lake in Webster, Massachusetts. This is incorrectly said to be Algonquin for "you fish your side of the water, I fish my side of the water, nobody fishes the middle". (It actually means "Englishmen at Manchaug at the Fishing Place at the Boundary").

I had the (I now know) apocryphal meaning in mind this morning as I hummed the very catchy tune composed by my good friend, and ruminated about the general atmosphere of the blogosphere.

Seriously - we're clearly none of us responsible and grownup enough to carry on constructive conversations with one another. I'm the first to admit I'm weak and timid and unable to withstand rigorous critique. Guilty as charged. And I'm also hypersensitive, touchy, overemotional and neurotic in a way that makes others uncomfortable, especially those others who are particularly aggressive, judgmental, shortsighted, unimaginative, sadistic, unsympathetic and lacking in empathy.

I just can't see for shit in the feeding frenzy in the middle of this lake.

So I'm going to go fish on my side for a while. And in so doing, I hope it is clear that I respect both the fish and the fisherfolk on the other side, and their skill as fisherfolk, and the long and rich cultural history embodied in their fishing traditions, which are different from mine but no less fascinating, and the delicious culinary achivements that sprung from the abundance of fish out there on their side of the lake.

But I'm spending way too much time messing around on the other side of the lake, clearly, when I should be paying attention to my own side.

Oh, who am I kidding. I'll be back in the middle right there along with everyone else.
 

we're clearly none of us responsible and grownup enough to carry on constructive conversations with one another

You know what: I disagree. Many of us do just fine a lot of the time, if not all of the time.
 

As someone that is supremely hated by the anti rad fem types, I feel your pain and stand with you in solidarity
 

I think the whole concept of 'separate rooms' for discussion is a bad idea simply because such things fertilize bad ideas. Sort of like how a company where the CEO is surrounded by yes-men and yes-women who simply all agree with the CEO - ideas unchallenged by people who really have a passion to challenge them are ideas that stagnate, rot, and die.

That's part of the rationale for standing in law - requiring that there be an actual case or controversy before you can even enter court - the idea is that you want have to opposed parties who both zealously desire the opposite outcome in a case to make sure that the issues are thoroughly explored and that you get a good result. Only in that cauldron of strong advocacy from both sides can the law and the facts be discerned.
 

what i think is, the people who -really want- a separate room are welcome to it; and me, i'm more than happy to go everywhere -else- in the house and even outside. buh bye, separate room people. enjoy your...separateness.

although ideally it oughtn't to get to the point where the room becomes an armed compound; one does want to keep at least one eye out for that possibility...
 

just looking down that list (the "fuck you'd"), it occurs to me, not for the first time: with the possible exception of Gayle (whom I still really don't know anything about except every time i've run across her she's had something to say to me personally), and Heart the supposed "political" lesbian (okay), everyone in that entire list is straight-straight-straight. and in fact a couple have made remarks I consider downright garden-variety homophobic.

what does that say?

i don't know, but seems to me that for some people "loving women" actually means "teaming up with other women to vent Bad Feelings onto Men."

which, is not a sport that I'm all that interested in, because -I don't have that much frigging investment in the men.-

curious.
 

"womyn"??? what a load of horseshit...plunk down some money for a spell checker that works...LOLOL