Tuesday, May 30, 2006
Because I'm a bloglemming, and because I can't seem to comment at The Den:
Pursuant to the whole "wearing your feminist cred on your sleeve/feet/legs/lips" issue, I thought I'd recycle a bit from a post I made sometime last week:
I was so relieved when I finally ditched the whole "pretty" lifestyle. At my peak of conformity I always felt like a fraud, like I was wearing a cheap and poorly-made woman costume. I felt like a female impersonator, like I was in drag. I hated it, not because men looked at me, but because it didn't feel authentic. I felt like a caricature of femininity. My whole body felt fragile and breakable, my hands were totally useless with the long fake nails on, those damn shoes drove me crazy and I wanted to claw my face off just to get rid of all that makeup sludge.
I guess I'm not really qualified to judge what feels or doesn't feel authentic to the individual. I guess one woman's caricature is another woman's heroic realism. That's cool with me.
but how come I get the sense that the charity and forbearance extended to leg-shavers and high-heel wearers and short-skirt choosers and cosmetics-users does not extend to those who rock such gear for the purposes of sexual arousal (of themselves or anyone else), and not in spite of it.
It's a mixed mixed mixed mixed message I'm hearing:
Wear your short skirt, as long as it isn't made of leather or latex or PVC, but don't talk about any sort of sensual, pleasurable experience you might be having as a result of wearing it.
Whatever you do, don't take a picture of yourself wearing it.
And if you do take a picture of yourself wearing it, for the love of all that's holy don't show it to anyone else.
And if you like having your picture taken while wearing it, and showing people that picture gives you further pleasure - well, nobody cares what you do in your private life, but that sort of exhibitionism is probably not so feminist and certainly not radical and hey, what do you know - here we are again...
it seems inconsistent to be pro-short skirt and still find a way to look down one's nose at one's (ahem) more twisted sisters.
Pursuant to the whole "wearing your feminist cred on your sleeve/feet/legs/lips" issue, I thought I'd recycle a bit from a post I made sometime last week:
I was so relieved when I finally ditched the whole "pretty" lifestyle. At my peak of conformity I always felt like a fraud, like I was wearing a cheap and poorly-made woman costume. I felt like a female impersonator, like I was in drag. I hated it, not because men looked at me, but because it didn't feel authentic. I felt like a caricature of femininity. My whole body felt fragile and breakable, my hands were totally useless with the long fake nails on, those damn shoes drove me crazy and I wanted to claw my face off just to get rid of all that makeup sludge.
I guess I'm not really qualified to judge what feels or doesn't feel authentic to the individual. I guess one woman's caricature is another woman's heroic realism. That's cool with me.
but how come I get the sense that the charity and forbearance extended to leg-shavers and high-heel wearers and short-skirt choosers and cosmetics-users does not extend to those who rock such gear for the purposes of sexual arousal (of themselves or anyone else), and not in spite of it.
It's a mixed mixed mixed mixed message I'm hearing:
Wear your short skirt, as long as it isn't made of leather or latex or PVC, but don't talk about any sort of sensual, pleasurable experience you might be having as a result of wearing it.
Whatever you do, don't take a picture of yourself wearing it.
And if you do take a picture of yourself wearing it, for the love of all that's holy don't show it to anyone else.
And if you like having your picture taken while wearing it, and showing people that picture gives you further pleasure - well, nobody cares what you do in your private life, but that sort of exhibitionism is probably not so feminist and certainly not radical and hey, what do you know - here we are again...
it seems inconsistent to be pro-short skirt and still find a way to look down one's nose at one's (ahem) more twisted sisters.
# posted by antiprincess @ 7:37 AM 
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heh. oh the delirious thrill of agreement. so addictive.
well, I might even go one louder on the subject of the deeper meaning of short skirts and heels and the whole rest of the barracuda-femme drag, in that I'm not sure there's any good reason to go through so much time and trouble besides wanting to feel desirable and rock teh hawtness, and feel the pleasurable physical sensations that come from that.
well, I might even go one louder on the subject of the deeper meaning of short skirts and heels and the whole rest of the barracuda-femme drag, in that I'm not sure there's any good reason to go through so much time and trouble besides wanting to feel desirable and rock teh hawtness, and feel the pleasurable physical sensations that come from that.
Sex is academic. Lust is not. Sex as a women's rights academic issue is easy to quantify and measure, but lust is a tricky animal.
My wife, herself a staunch feminist, once said "it's easy to find feminists who will say they like sex, but try finding one who will admit she likes DICK."
To me, it's just another example of how patriarchal erotophobia got projected onto the feminist movement which arose to combat it. They're diametrically opposed, but they're each hampered often by the same prudishness. What do you think?
My wife, herself a staunch feminist, once said "it's easy to find feminists who will say they like sex, but try finding one who will admit she likes DICK."
To me, it's just another example of how patriarchal erotophobia got projected onto the feminist movement which arose to combat it. They're diametrically opposed, but they're each hampered often by the same prudishness. What do you think?
well, I hesitate to call it "prudishness", as the word "prude" is pretty loaded. It calls to mind a frowning and judgmental disapproval borne of nothing other than an attitude of smug superiority.
However, the idea of recapitulating patriarchy through erotophobia is interesting.
However, the idea of recapitulating patriarchy through erotophobia is interesting.
Wrinkled noses.
Rolled eyes.
"That's so disgusting."
"I'd never do that."
"She looks like a total prostitute." (Sir Mix is smiling)
THAT, to me, is "prude." To me, it suggests posturing, affectatiousness borne of a culturally conditioned fear of rubbing dirty bits. Nothing loaded to me, but I can see your point. Fair enough. Insert (your word) here.
It is an interesting thought, though, isn't it? We as men of Christian background have been conditioned to fear sex, so why not the similarly-raised women? They move to reject the current standard, but its conditioned responses still plague them.
Rolled eyes.
"That's so disgusting."
"I'd never do that."
"She looks like a total prostitute." (Sir Mix is smiling)
THAT, to me, is "prude." To me, it suggests posturing, affectatiousness borne of a culturally conditioned fear of rubbing dirty bits. Nothing loaded to me, but I can see your point. Fair enough. Insert (your word) here.
It is an interesting thought, though, isn't it? We as men of Christian background have been conditioned to fear sex, so why not the similarly-raised women? They move to reject the current standard, but its conditioned responses still plague them.
I mean - I can't very well run around telling people to "loosen up" when I get bent out of shape if people tell me to "tighten up".
so prudishness? no. not everyone is going to process sexual ideas the same way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that such differences should always have value judgments attached.
so prudishness? no. not everyone is going to process sexual ideas the same way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that such differences should always have value judgments attached.
"I understand that being anti-porn does not necessarily indicate a distaste for sexual activity."
I said that a few posts ago. And I stand by it.
I said that a few posts ago. And I stand by it.
>but I think a lot of the "sex-negative rad-fems" do feel that the women who like this stuff are ruining it for them because someone might want them to dress a certain way or act a certain way or want a certain thing, rather than assuming whatever that certain thing is is totally unusual and/or wrong.>
I think that's correct. I mean, if you truly didn't think it affected you, you wouldn't care, right?
Thing is, it seems really really difficult to just get to the point where "look, this is what *I* want; you're not me, you don't have to be me. And no, I don't need to justify myself to you" starts clicking in. All 'round, that is.
I think that's correct. I mean, if you truly didn't think it affected you, you wouldn't care, right?
Thing is, it seems really really difficult to just get to the point where "look, this is what *I* want; you're not me, you don't have to be me. And no, I don't need to justify myself to you" starts clicking in. All 'round, that is.
if you truly didn't think it affected you, you wouldn't care, right?
Rather tangential, but this quote reminds me of an old essay my husband wrote about bacon and how the right-wing talks about homosexuality.
-- his link or my excerpt
Rather tangential, but this quote reminds me of an old essay my husband wrote about bacon and how the right-wing talks about homosexuality.
-- his link or my excerpt
"Sex-positive" originally was not, as I understand it, coined as a way to distinguish oneself from other feminists, but rather as a way of acknowledging that the culture we are all steeped in (even as we are in, say, patriarchy, or white supremacy, or...) is "sex-negative."
I've just never seen exhibitionism per se particularly acknowledged (from a radfem) as something that might actually turn a woman on, herownself, as opposed to something she did simply to please a Man; I am assuming that this is what p-f meant, or was extrapolating to mean.
"Maybe the sex-pos brigade could look at a less 'patriarchial positive' name for themselves? One that doesn't make 'pro-choice' equal 'pro-baby-killing'?"
yeah, that would be cool.
yeah, that would be cool.
Yo, Anti...
I just tossed a Molotov into the comments section over at Witchy's blog. If they let it through, go take a look and lemme know what you think.
I just tossed a Molotov into the comments section over at Witchy's blog. If they let it through, go take a look and lemme know what you think.
I'm still just waiting for w-w to answer my question wrt what on earth dear Catherine McK meantby "PR firm hired and funded by the pornographers," if it wasn't in fact, FACT (Feminist Anti-Censorship Task Force)
that, and how it is that I'm more male-identified than a "radical feminist" who's living with and fucking them (and never frigging shuts up about them), males; not to mention the "radical feminist males" themselves.
Also, whether she can play "Melancholy Baby;" but then, so few can. It is a constant source of grievous disappointment to me, that.
that, and how it is that I'm more male-identified than a "radical feminist" who's living with and fucking them (and never frigging shuts up about them), males; not to mention the "radical feminist males" themselves.
Also, whether she can play "Melancholy Baby;" but then, so few can. It is a constant source of grievous disappointment to me, that.
>Maybe the sex-pos brigade could look at a less 'patriarchial positive' name for themselves? One that doesn't make 'pro-choice' equal 'pro-baby-killing'?>
wtf does this actually mean?
wtf does this actually mean?
belledame - I think she's referring to the idea that how a particular group labels itself sometimes carries a value judgment against its opposing group, i.e., the antiabortion movement calling itself "pro-life" seems to assume that those working to secure safe abortions are "pro-death".
calling myself "sex-positive" may imply that anyone who doesn't fuck how I fuck is "sex-negative", which of course is not the case.
so that's what I think she means.
calling myself "sex-positive" may imply that anyone who doesn't fuck how I fuck is "sex-negative", which of course is not the case.
so that's what I think she means.
Well, like I said: 'twasn't how it was originally intended. Mainstream culture is "patriarchal;" mainstream culture is "sex-negative." No more; no less.
then again I think asking anyone else to change their label is pretty rich coming from someone who flings about epithets like "not a feminist" and "male-identified" pretty much at will.
I am sex-positive; I am a feminist. In itself, the labels are not particularly meant as a slur against anyone else; then again, I am thinking: if the comfortable shoe fits, perhaps, wear it.
and meanwhile I quote Molly Ivins, my favorite liberal feminist (well, one of them):
"I have always felt free to tell [self-appointed police], in my politically correct feminist fashion, 'Fuck off.'"
then again I think asking anyone else to change their label is pretty rich coming from someone who flings about epithets like "not a feminist" and "male-identified" pretty much at will.
I am sex-positive; I am a feminist. In itself, the labels are not particularly meant as a slur against anyone else; then again, I am thinking: if the comfortable shoe fits, perhaps, wear it.
and meanwhile I quote Molly Ivins, my favorite liberal feminist (well, one of them):
"I have always felt free to tell [self-appointed police], in my politically correct feminist fashion, 'Fuck off.'"
(and, by the way, I am also pro-choice.
as in, my body belongs to me.
which applies across the boards, really).
as in, my body belongs to me.
which applies across the boards, really).
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